r/nottheonion • u/thieh • 2d ago
Homeless people can be ticketed for sleeping outside, Supreme Court rules
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/28/politics/homeless-grants-pass-oregon-supreme-court/index.html9.2k
u/gigglegenius 2d ago
But they can not pay. Pipeline to jail established?
4.0k
u/McKimboSlice 2d ago
They just made the intake for the existing pipe wider.
2.0k
u/Hippopotamidaes 2d ago
5% of the world’s population.
20% of its prisoners.
Land of the wage-enslaved, home of the terrified.
277
u/Kingtoke1 2d ago
Land of the thief, home of the slave
27
u/Fresh-Temporary666 2d ago
Not often you run across a Brother Ali reference in the wild.
→ More replies (2)25
u/GRF999999999 2d ago
I lived next door to him in Minneapolis for a while, when I moved to Phoenix one of the first things I saw at the grocery store was a guy wearing a Brother Ali t-shirt. Turns out that was the one and only time that was going to happen in the last 13 years.
→ More replies (3)45
u/Hippopotamidaes 2d ago
I might steal this from ya with a slight alteration
38
u/Kingtoke1 2d ago
→ More replies (4)10
u/creakybulks 2d ago
god damn i used to listen to this album a ton in college. good looking
8
u/GRF999999999 2d ago
I lived next door to him, delivered him and his kid food a lot of Saturdays. Good tipper.
→ More replies (155)302
u/Tokon32 2d ago
We actually have a higher incarceration rate than the Soviet Union did at its peak.
All the bullshit about communism coming from the right and the one thing they could actually use to compare us to the Soviets is how many people we lock up. And yet they don't.
→ More replies (41)240
u/busy_living01 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yep, it's like they installed a funnel to speed things up.
284
u/0berfeld 2d ago
That’s what the country with the most prisoners in the world needs, more long term prison sentences.
→ More replies (9)157
u/nostromo909 2d ago
We have more people locked up than Stalin had in the Gulag.
89
u/Complete-Ice2456 2d ago
“Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime”
Lavrentiy Beria
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (16)56
u/lazyeyepsycho 2d ago
Slavers gonna slave
38
u/artgarfunkadelic 2d ago
For profit prison gonna profit
19
u/Sad_Anxiety1401 2d ago
America will finally be able to compete with China in manufacturing! Think of the economy
→ More replies (1)59
u/ExpertlyAmateur 2d ago
Pretty sure this is the distraction decision to pull attention away from their other recent decisions. Gotta keep the ideological going so that their corruption gets rinsed from public memory.
→ More replies (13)54
1.2k
u/EvolutionDude 2d ago
Reminds me of the post civil war vagrancy laws. Criminalize something that's easily selectively applied to people they don't like, then send them to jail for free labor because they obviously can't pay their fines.
468
u/_BreakingGood_ 2d ago
Criminalize being in debt.
In debt -> go to prison -> can't work -> debt does not get paid off -> repeat step 1
Very common in past times, looks like we're headed back there.
→ More replies (10)198
u/SlowRollingBoil 2d ago
It never ended, to be fair.
→ More replies (1)64
u/Fun-Initiative-5175 2d ago
Yeah about ten years ago in Detroit I was arrested and arraigned, held in a precinct over night then a court "cell" all day awaiting my court appearance. I say "cell" cause it was just a small closet with a toilet that they stuffed a dozen of us in like sardines, so tight we could only stand up. A lot of guys had interesting stories but one stood out who came into the cell midday. He was in his 50s, well kept and said he was on his way to jail for 60 days cause he owed the city $600 and couldnt pay. Somehow in someones terribly fucked up accounting his time was worth $10/day.
→ More replies (2)48
u/Bakoro 2d ago
said he was on his way to jail for 60 days cause he owed the city $600 and couldnt pay. Somehow in someones terribly fucked up accounting his time was worth $10/day.
It's definitely about the cruelty, and very likely some kind of graft involved.
It would cost the city more just to do the processing and it costs an average of a little over $100 a day to jail someone in the U.S.
They spent over $6000 to jail someone over $600, and if that person had a job, they did thousands of dollars of economic harm to their own city.They're spending dollars punishing people over pennies.
It only makes sense two ways: punishment is highly valued over justice, and/or there are private contractors with the city/county jail who are getting paid, and the people in charge are benefitting.8
u/TheLatestTrance 2d ago
Why not both?
23
u/SlowRollingBoil 2d ago
It's definitely both. Conservatives hate to admit that certain things like cash bail and harsh penalties not only DON'T work but have been shown not to work for decades.
On top of this, they hate that leniency, compassion, empathy and support for these people is what has been shown to decrease crime and recidivism. Effectively, conservatives are cruel and always have been. "The cruelty is the point", remember. It's effectively a moral judgement on these people for being poor and the punishment is severe.
132
u/RetPala 2d ago
Slavery. You're talking about slavery.
→ More replies (6)69
u/EvolutionDude 2d ago
Yep. Strongly recommend "Slavery by Another Name" by Douglas A. Blackmon
12
u/Lorn_Muunk 2d ago
...and if your attention span is too short to read a whole book, here's a fantastic video essay on the subject
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (57)195
u/Turisan 2d ago
I mean, that's what it is though.
→ More replies (1)81
u/Skoonks 2d ago
Hence why he was reminded of it.
52
u/Psych_Yer_Out 2d ago
I think this person is saying, it isn't really being reminded of something if it is basically the same thing. It just is that thing.
Example: Hey this type of navel orange reminds me of an orange.
Counter point: Yeah they are both oranges.
→ More replies (1)151
u/AOEmishap 2d ago
Amazon Poorhouse launches!
129
u/Complete-Ice2456 2d ago
"Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge.
"Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
"And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"
"They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not."
"The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?" said Scrooge.
"Both very busy, sir."
"Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course," said Scrooge. "I am very glad to hear it."
50
u/PerformanceOk8593 2d ago
Republicans on the Supreme Court: "Perhaps they should die and decrease the surplus population."
→ More replies (2)34
→ More replies (3)38
u/LoriLeadfoot 2d ago
Sadly poorhouses would be a bit of an improvement over the current situation. Back in the day you could be sent there for all kinds of reasons, reflecting the sensibilities of the time. But they were essentially welfare houses for very poor and mentally ill people. They were medicalized into asylums, and then finally closed when the nation became aware of abuses occurring at those asylums. They were ultimately replaced by jails and prisons.
→ More replies (8)331
u/InkBlotSam 2d ago
These are low-level fines and very short jail terms for repeat offenders that are in effect in many other jurisdictions
$500 to a homeless person might as well be a million. And because they will be in violation every single night because they need to ... sleep... yes, it seems like a pipeline to jail.
→ More replies (40)161
u/Katviar 2d ago
Hell, I have shelter and 500 is a lot still!! That’s not a low level like damn that’s some peoples insurance or electricity and water bill and shit. And most Americans are one or two bad paychecks away from being homeless
64
u/314159265358979326 2d ago
I'm working full-time as a professional and a $500 fine would seriously fuck up my budget for at least a month.
→ More replies (13)16
u/elsoloojo 2d ago
$500 is literally my car insurance plus cell phone plus electricity for the month.
92
u/RecklesslyPessmystic 2d ago
Debtor's prison used to be a thing.
I'm curious though - isn't it more expensive for the taxpayers to round up the unhoused and then house them in prison with 3 meals a day and medical care on site than to fund shelters or low income housing programs?
139
u/Yitram 2d ago
Prisons have a better lobby than low-income shelters.
→ More replies (1)31
u/Link-Glittering 2d ago
Well and the prisons make money off the taxpayers for housing people. It's double bad. We're not just paying to house "criminals" We're also paying to get prison owners rich in the process. Then the prisoners do free labor. Hooray America still has slaves. Freedom style.
46
u/_BreakingGood_ 2d ago
All those expenses + all the middlemen in-between extracting profits. Those for-profit-prisons aren't doing it for free.
→ More replies (1)30
u/sterrecat 2d ago
You’re forgetting that the constitution allows for forced labor from imprisoned persons. So the for profit prisons are getting free or cheap labor as well as getting funding for housing prisoners. Then the politicians get funded from profits from the prisons. It’s the tax payer losing but the corporations winning.
5
→ More replies (20)5
510
u/itslikewoow 2d ago
Don’t forget, this was made possible by Trump’s Supreme Court picks. Elections have consequences.
→ More replies (94)102
u/Mustang46L 2d ago
Yeah, that was a point that the defense brought up. Also, it's illegal for a homeless person to sleep outside but not for someone who is stargazing or sunbathing who falls asleep? But no, we aren't targeting the homeless..
→ More replies (18)22
u/Nizidramaniyt 2d ago
you just gave the cops some ideas to fill quotas
20
u/Mustang46L 2d ago
These ideas were vocalized by the justices. They literally asked them what they were going to do if they ruled in their favor. My ideas aren't new or fresh.
71
u/jazzwhiz 2d ago
Remember that slavery is explicitly constitutional in the US if you have been convicted of a crime. This is why no one should be surprised that the US is number one for number of people in jail (some smaller countries have more per capita, but there are more people in jail in America than in China).
→ More replies (9)18
u/Poppanaattori89 2d ago
Which makes this legislation a pipeline to slavery instead.
→ More replies (7)36
u/KenTitan 2d ago
three hots and a cot for sleeping outside... this ruling solves homelessness! /s
→ More replies (5)31
→ More replies (212)58
u/mistercrinders 2d ago
Debtor's prisons are unconstitutional.
100
u/LoriLeadfoot 2d ago
No they are not. We just don’t have widespread prisons just for people who have minor debts anymore. We have lots and lots of people incarcerated for failing to pay fines and fees or for related crimes, and still more incarcerated in lieu of payment because they couldn’t afford it. That is how this is going to end up. The homeless will be fined, then incarcerated for not paying or as an alternative to payment.
→ More replies (14)→ More replies (15)66
4.5k
u/thewoodsiswatching 2d ago
Getting to be just like England in the 1800s.
It's against the law to be poor.
1.4k
u/Anteater776 2d ago
It’s ok because according to evangelists it’s also deeply blasphemous to be poor.
317
u/TheBuddhaPalm 2d ago edited 2d ago
Not exactly blasphemous. To Evangelicals it's a sign that, and I wish I was joking, God does not favor you (i.e., hates your guts), and that if you were favored by God you'd be rewarded with riches. So it's more the implication that you're living 'the wrong life' as a blanket statement to judge and 'other' people in your community (e.g., say the queer person in your community is poor because they're queer, and if you're queer you'll be poor too, because God hates you), and reinforce your own prejudices!
Because, as famously told in the Bible, God gives gold to people he finds favor with; never have the pious been tortured or punished for 'reasons', nor did Jesus ever tell rich people to give up their money.
Not to be pedantic in this, I just believe the Evangelical standpoint is much more devious and cruel than 'god hates the poor'.
Edit: Also, to emphasize the backwards-ass cult-like nature of it, the reverse assumption is that if you are rich, God thinks you're more pious than others. Meaning a tautological feedback loop of "your megapastor is rich, therefore God favors them, if they're accumulating more wealth, that just means the megapastor is doing the correct thing". It's legitimately a self-reinforcing cult technique.
211
u/Blekanly 2d ago
I do recall jesus having a mansion, walking around covered in bling
→ More replies (3)83
61
u/poddy_fries 2d ago
I was raised Catholic, which certainly has its own fascinating inconsistencies, but these 'prosperity gospel' people are utterly alien to me. I keep thinking someone must have written a good, recent book to explain the birth and continuation of the phenomenon to interested outsiders. It's just so weird to find theology so seemingly unscriptural descending from people who insisted if it wasn't in scripture it's paganism.
→ More replies (2)27
u/TheDunadan29 2d ago
It's because they preach comfortable things to rich people. If Jesus showed up today he'd be crucified just as quickly by most modern Christians. Modern preachers appeal to people's pride and vanity, and to their greed. They tell people, "you're saved and you're good, and furthermore your wealth and success are signs you're a good person and going to heaven." And of course people will eat that up. Jesus told the rich young man, "sell everything you have and give to the poor." You think people want to hear that today? Jesus taught hard truths that urged people to change. Modern Christianity urges people not to change and embrace their vices. Which one is going to be more popular?
→ More replies (3)11
u/EasterClause 2d ago
Those preachers play both sides at the same time. They're the ones who get to be rich right now in this life because of how holy they are. And they'll enjoy the fruits of heaven. And the old ladies living off of SS who still tithe a percentage of their money are holy because they're poor like Jesus was. So they should continue to donate. And their poverty and humility will surely be rewarded in the afterlife. Source is trust me bro. So brainwashed poor people contribute money to the wolves who have fleeced them, and they all feel good because they all get to be part of the same club with the same rainbow road vacation at the end of it all. And the rest of us heathens will be standing at the locked gates with our dicks in our hands.
→ More replies (13)19
u/Puzzled-Story3953 2d ago
Is that why I saw videos of the actual devil trying to blow away Covid? I don't know his name, but I am 100% certain that Satan walks among us, and all it takes is a single look to recognize it. And I don't even believe in Satan.
25
u/TheBuddhaPalm 2d ago edited 2d ago
Kenneth Copeland. He is an Evangelical and megapastor who does believe in the concept of "Prosperity Gospel", which is a core concept of American Evangelicalism.
→ More replies (2)9
u/Brooklynxman 2d ago
He is the one who confuses me the most. Most of these megachurch pastors, they have charisma, they got grift, but him, he itches the uncanny valley, he moves, he speaks in an alien, frightening way, and his eyes look simultaneously empty and full of malice. How, how does he have a congregation?
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (11)67
250
u/LoriLeadfoot 2d ago
The USA in the 1800s, too! We had a proliferation of debtors’ prisons until a series of financial catastrophes rendered them politically unpopular. You had all kinds of otherwise respectable people like a sitting SCOTUS justice and Robert E. Lee’s war hero father rotting in debtors’ prisons because of shocks to the economy. So we had to reduce the role they played in American debt relations.
→ More replies (14)131
u/under_the_c 2d ago
it's against the law to be poor.
It's not targeting poor! Rich people aren't allowed to sleep outside, either! /s
→ More replies (2)68
u/ScottyBoneman 2d ago
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.
-Anatole France
→ More replies (109)13
2.3k
u/stifledmind 2d ago
What does this accomplish?
4.6k
u/lmaooer2 2d ago
When these homeless people get a ticket, they will think, "Ah shit, I need to get a job to pay this off." Then they will walk into a business, ask for an application, get hired, apply for an apartment lease, get approved, and live happily ever after
1.7k
u/notsooriginal 2d ago
And if they don't get a job the first time, they will learn to use a firm handshake, and be persistent.
717
u/probability_of_meme 2d ago
Just hand your resume directly to the hiring manager. Works every time!
339
u/In_A_Church 2d ago
and don't forget to send a thank you card afterward!
→ More replies (1)155
u/pegothejerk 2d ago
If the manager isn't courteous and doesn't respond in a manner you expect when you demand a job, demand to speak to the owner and tell him you'll be replacing that rude manager. Skip straight to a 120k starting salary and start aiming for the owner's job.
→ More replies (1)57
u/OramaBuffin 2d ago edited 2d ago
Jesus christ the amount of times I struggles to explain to people that they need to apply online and if they hand me their resume it's just going to end up in a shredder box. And I can't get you the manager because we are a large business and they are busy with their job, and aren't involved at all with the hiring process until the last 20% anyways.
Generally I will just lie and tell them "it doesnt hurt if I take it" if that will satisfy them to leave and go online afterwards. I respect the hustle but damn when I tell you we only take online applications I'm not trying to blow you off I'm trying to help you actually get hired.
→ More replies (2)8
u/LastStar007 2d ago
we are a large business and they are busy with their job, and aren't involved at all with the hiring process until the last 20% anyways.
I know there's nothing you can do about this, but this seems to be a very common weakness in most companies' hiring processes. I don't see why they do it. Going through 80% of a process only to find out at the very end why candidate A's skill set isn't what manager B is looking for (or that candidate A has pulled their application because they don't want to work for manager B) is a waste of money.
Or even worse, go through 100% and hire the candidate, only for them to walk out or be on a PIP in a few months.
10
u/abbacchus 2d ago
Because the solution is to have redundancy in all positions, but it drives MBA types up the wall to have that "unnecessary expense". So they spend 3x as much to maintain a whole administrative hierarchy to the side of normal business operations, causing huge wastes of time and communications gaps. Just look at ballooning university or insurance costs for some of the best examples of these kinds of bloat.
6
u/LastStar007 2d ago
I will never understand how we let these idiots have all the money.
→ More replies (1)44
u/ThreeCrapTea 2d ago
Don't forget to squat and take a good poop in his office right in front of him while maintaining eye contact to assert dominance.
21
u/gasolinedi0n 2d ago
Nobody has ever done that... You must be out of your god damn mind... This company needs more people like you. Your hired!
→ More replies (3)19
28
→ More replies (9)22
u/Sterling_-_Archer 2d ago
I was unemployed for 8 months and I logged each and every application. 870. Each one had cover pages, follow up emails, connecting on LI and messaging them there, calling owners/hiring managers if I could find their number after I apply, interviewing, all that… and I just got hired this past week.
Unfortunately my brother has fallen into the “they just need to get a job, they need to work” pitfall, touting his job right after high school. That I got for him since I was the foreman for the crew. And I picked him up because he would sleep in and be late if I didn’t wake him up. Also he’s 21, so a little old for that… just nonsense all around.
7
u/Murranji 2d ago
Just wait until he gets fired - though he might swap to blaming illegal immigrants for taking all the jobs instead.
7
u/CaptainStabfellow 2d ago
Holy shit. I can’t believe the way to solve to homelessness has been this simple all this time. We should have done this sooner!
→ More replies (77)6
u/Magical_wizard_ 2d ago
My dad told me homeless shelters boost homelessness because regular people see homeless shelters and say “wow being homeless seems awesome” and they ditch their life and live on the street
564
u/HarrySatchel 2d ago
It will be easier for cities to break up homeless encampments & force people to move. They'll face fewer legal challenges for doing it.
→ More replies (86)108
u/obsidianop 2d ago
Right. In the abstract, I'm against the idea that a homeless person can't sleep on public property. But in the concrete situation that a city has to remove a homeless encampment, that's something that can become necessary. A single person sleeping is no skin off my back, but we've seen how a group of people can take complete control over a public good like a park, and additionally cause major issues for the surrounding neighborhood.
Perhaps one way to square this is you just continue to have drug use on public property be illegal.
→ More replies (15)33
u/19Krakatoa96 2d ago
The 9th circuit ruled you can arrest them out as long as the city has available shelters. Which I think is a fair carrot and stick situation, either take the public support or get penalized (ofc this requires an adequate program and a nuanced penalization approach).
SCOTUS decided that even if there are 0 shelters, you can arrest them.
→ More replies (8)19
u/Joshatron121 2d ago
Except in some cases a shelter can be more dangerous of a place than the street for an individual. What if someone else staying at the shelter (or hell running the shelter) abused them, for instance? They have no way to appeal that situation and they may not be able to go to another shelter so that person will be effectively forced to go to that dangerous place and put themselves at risk.
It may seem like "oh the shelter has space it's safe to penalize the unhoused for not going there", but just like with all laws that have a blanket affect like this there is a nuance when creating laws for some of the most vulnerable people in our population that is frequently overlooked.
→ More replies (5)107
u/CharlesBronsonsHair 2d ago
It doesn't solve the problem, it let's us move it a bit further away. That's the best we can do since we can't get our shit together to build enough housing.
122
u/itslikewoow 2d ago
The irony is that fiscally responsible thing to do is improve our social safety net, rather than lock more people up.
We already know that policing and jailing people costs a lot more money than building up communities in need. It also has the added benefit of not needing to remove people’s freedoms the way jails and prison do. You’d think EVERYONE, from fiscal conservatives, to bleeding heart liberals, to evangelicals, to everyone else in between would support better social programs before resorting to policies like the one mentioned in the article.
→ More replies (14)63
u/Syovere 2d ago
Yep. You know what fixes homelessness? Housing. Housing first. Some people think they have to "clean up their act" before getting it? No. Housing. First. It's proven to work both in the US (when done properly) and abroad.
But minorities make up a disproportionate amount of homeless people. And that's why people don't want to help them. Conveniently I did a report on this for my first term in college, a portion of which follows:
The authors of “Comparing Substance Use and Mental Health Among Sexual and Gender Minority and Heterosexual Cisgender Youth Experiencing Homelessness” in PLoS ONE report that 30-40% of under-25 homeless that use homeless services identified as a sexual or gender minority, meaning that they were transgender, non-heterosexual, or both. They go on to contrast that with the rate of 18-29-year-olds broadly who identify in those ways, only 6.4% The United States Department of Housing and Urban Development report corroborates this with its own data on racial demographics; while those who identify as Black are twelve percent of the national population, they make up 37% of homeless individuals and 50% of homeless families.
References:
Hao, Jennifer, et al., “Comparing Substance Use and Mental Health Among Sexual and Gender Minority and Heterosexual Cisgender Youth Experiencing Homelessness”, PLoS ONE, Public Library of Science, 11 March 2021, vol. 16, no. 3 https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0248077
United States, Department of Housing and Urban Development, Office of Community Planning and Development, The 2022 Annual Homelessness Assessment Report (AHAR) to Congress, December 2022
→ More replies (12)18
u/xiroir 2d ago
Air BnBs do not help either.
Neither do big corporations buying whole neighbourhoods to artificially increase prices.
But that requires a government that cares about its people.
Which requires money out of politics and politicians with a spine.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (9)39
u/YourGodsMother 2d ago
The problem is that Republicans lost access to slave labor and needed to bring it back. The solution is putting the homeless in jail where slave labor is legal. To them this does solve the problem
→ More replies (7)159
u/Melodic_Mulberry 2d ago
Easier to punish people for being poor. They can remove the symptoms of late-stage capitalism without confronting the causes.
→ More replies (8)90
→ More replies (117)34
u/CTRexPope 2d ago
It creates a great prison population to do free labor for all the subcontractors private prisons use. It’s about making money via essentially slavery (legal in this case if you read the 13A)
“Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”
20
u/Karmasmatik 2d ago
Don't forget that the profits from imprisoned labor will go to private companies while the cost of imprisonment (which is higher than providing housing would be) will be passed on to the taxpayers. Yay!
→ More replies (4)8
622
u/fazlez1 2d ago
Nor can a handful of federal judges begin to ‘match’ the collective wisdom the American people possess
They're proving this statement to be spot-on true more and more every time they make a decision. One would hope that the decisions they make would be in the best interest of the whole country, but they're showing that only one segment of the population matters.
→ More replies (9)114
u/Trisa133 2d ago
They’re not trying to match any wisdom. They’re trying to collect more money.
→ More replies (5)15
665
u/lawlesstoast 2d ago
Because ticketing people who cannot afford the basic life necessities will make the problem go away. Bravo.
59
u/Dubbbo 2d ago
When they get ticketed every single night from now on while unable to pay a single one, soon they will be imprisoned to make them go away. Solving homelessness by criminalizing it.
→ More replies (1)43
76
u/ScorchIsBestSniper 2d ago
Next we should make crime illegal! That would stop the criminals
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (33)13
u/GlumCartographer111 2d ago
The purpose is to kill and/or enslave the homeless population.
→ More replies (1)
1.5k
u/ctiger12 2d ago
All homeless should be camping in front of these justices’ houses protesting, not sleeping outside, just protesting
487
u/skoltroll 2d ago
It's not camping. It's protesting.
And no one touched any paperwork.
→ More replies (2)139
u/Tripod1404 2d ago
They are not sleeping, they are just thinking with their eyes closed.
91
→ More replies (2)15
→ More replies (44)38
u/m1k3y60659 2d ago
Why, so they can get arrested and beat down by cops? What do you think this, is a free country?
→ More replies (1)
402
u/Hemicrusher 2d ago
I need to invest in private prison stock.
/s
199
u/_regionrat 2d ago edited 2d ago
You're not wrong. $GEO is up 5% today
Edit: closed at a 6.37% gain
47
→ More replies (2)28
u/TheBuddhaPalm 2d ago
And Northrup Grumman and Raytheon stock exploded on Oct 7, 2023.
The Stock Market abhors a vacuum [of profiting off of human misery].
→ More replies (6)→ More replies (10)92
u/MightyKrakyn 2d ago edited 2d ago
Sadly this is excellent financial advice. But I cannot bring myself to profit from the largest prison population in the world and the literal state sanctioned slavery that is so pervasive. We’re supposed to vote with our wallets, but the people with the least ethics benefit by supporting markets built on suffering and rocket past the rest of us in wealth accumulation
→ More replies (2)46
u/AequusEquus 2d ago
Don't worry, when they say vote with your wallet, they mean lobbying. Nobody cares about our pittances.
8
u/MyHusbandIsGayImNot 2d ago
It's crazy to me that a slogan about how American has devolved into an oligarchy where having more money gives you more power to vote somehow turned into a "companies will care when I don't get them $15" slogan.
700
u/SafeIntention2111 2d ago
We're one step away from debtor's prison.
495
u/NonPolarVortex 2d ago
We are a step away? I think we're there bud.
32
u/SpeaksSouthern 2d ago
There was a judge that was convicted of taking bribes to send children to jails for boosting the stock market price. America is sick, from the core.
→ More replies (1)76
61
u/WhiskeyHotdog_2 2d ago
You mean legal slavery
103
u/JMoc1 2d ago
We’ve had legal slavery since the passing of the 13th Amendment.
Slavery can be issued as punishment for a crime.
62
u/HallwayHomicide 2d ago
We’ve had legal slavery since the passing of the 13th Amendment.
Well... We had it before that too.
20
u/Eteel 2d ago
So we've always had slavery?
23
u/HallwayHomicide 2d ago
If the "we" in that sentence is the United States, then yes.
→ More replies (2)7
→ More replies (9)37
94
u/Shamelescampr559 2d ago
I was homeless for 5 years and thankfully now I'm not and I worked very hard to pull my life out of the gutter. Pun intended, but I definitely accumulated at least 100 tickets for just the most stupid things sleeping somewhere And plenty of other things and I have never received any type of notification for these outstanding debts or tickets in my name. Granted they are scattered across the United States. I was doing a lot of hitchhiking and stuff back then. But yeah tickets for sleeping outside are a real thing and this has been going on since at least 2011. That's when I first became homeless until about mid 2016
→ More replies (2)9
u/sweatgod2020 2d ago
There’s some wild website out there that gives you access to every ticket you’ve ever gotten or atleast that’s still on record.. I used it once as I have also been homeless and as a skateboarder always in the hospital/UC but never had insurance. Ooooh boy did that website have a TON of stuff…. Que the Homer Simpson back peddling meme. I’m all good now but man was that something to see in full..
170
181
u/benevenstancian0 2d ago
“How will we replace the slave revenue we generate from weed arrests once it gets legalized nationally?”
→ More replies (5)22
u/graciasfabregas 2d ago edited 2d ago
the same week they allow ten commandments and Bible lessons in public school they criminalize poverty.
the fuck are they gonna do when they meet Jesus
→ More replies (3)
179
u/WriterNotFamous 2d ago
Home of the free.
87
u/redwing180 2d ago
Well no, not with this ruling… you have to work to be free.
I think they’re trying to say is “Work will set you free!”
I feel like they’ve said that somewhere before. Someplace in Germany maybe?
→ More replies (8)→ More replies (5)26
262
u/Reverend_Bull 2d ago
How can one have a right to peaceable assembly without a right to assemble sleeping?
165
u/Langosta82 2d ago edited 1d ago
hobbies abounding humorous unite innocent correct imagine smoggy agonizing connect
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
→ More replies (4)30
u/IrisYelter 2d ago
I'd love to force these old fucks to have to hear a case where a public "camping" ban is enforceable against a single person, but the first amendment protects sleeping in groups as a peaceful assembly.
Well, id like it to not be enforceable at all, but legal shenanigans this absurd are always a little funny.
→ More replies (3)12
u/Malphos101 2d ago
You literally cannot "gotcha" the modern GQP, they have no shame and will use any justification/lie/law/etc. to gain more power for them and decrease power for the outgroup.
SCOTUS has shown they will narrowly follow any precedent or writing of law if it benefits them, or they will completely ignore precedent and reach for any kind of fig leaf justification found in the code of hammurabi that benjamin franklin quoted one time at a party/orgy if they cant do the former. The only thing these federalist society fascists will do is declare their will as law and damn anyone and anything that gets in their way, including the constitution or morality.
327
u/HessLook 2d ago
Fuck SCOTUS. Corrupt court
153
u/SpinningHead 2d ago
They arent bribed. They just accept "gratuities".
→ More replies (5)52
u/HessLook 2d ago
I work with public entities and they are required fill out form 700 which is ANY amounts received. Fucking highest court doesn’t have to do that? Scam
27
u/SpinningHead 2d ago
I worked as a low level gov contractor years ago and couldnt even accept a lunch.
6
u/strikingike386 2d ago
I helped people load their vehicles as a clerk at a grocery store and can't even take a 1 cent tip without risking getting terminated. But apparently yacht cruises are perfectly fine for people who ought to remain impartial.
→ More replies (11)22
133
u/probability_of_meme 2d ago
“This is not unusual in any way. It is certainly not cruel.”
So there you go. They can just spew out whatever lies and nonsense they want and we can all just go ahead and pretend that we have checks and balances in our society.
→ More replies (14)51
u/blahblahloveyou 2d ago
Crazy to think there are people who don't think it's cruel to fine someone for being too poor to afford shelter.
→ More replies (4)
43
61
u/grogmonster41 2d ago
Good luck collecting those payments.
→ More replies (12)148
u/Arlune890 2d ago
It's about being easier to throw them in jail to work as slave labor. They don't care about the fines
→ More replies (10)
15
u/KountMacula 2d ago
America: focusing on the punishment and not the prevention. Just like our healthcare system that focuses on the sickness and not prevention. And also like our system of democracy that caters and messages to those without any critical thinking skills, which, God forbid would be taught in a decent education system.
88
u/EtheusRook 2d ago edited 2d ago
As an anti-theist, I almost wish Hell was real just so these monstrous justices would go there.
→ More replies (6)18
93
u/jayfeather31 2d ago
Calling this cruel would be an understatement.
46
u/CaptainJackVernaise 2d ago
Right up there with Roberts saying we no longer need the Voting Rights Act because racism is fixed in America.
Or his assertion that the Government never played an active role in racist housing policy so it doesn't have any responsibility to remedy the results.
I'm starting to see a trend from them, and it doesn't point to an honest assessment of reality.
5
u/thisisrealgoodtea 2d ago
I know this doesn’t represent all homeless, but I briefly worked at a hospital where majority of the patients on the floor I was on were homeless veterans, many of whom had mental health issues like PTSD. After they were treated back to the streets they went. It made me so sad seeing our country fail our vets like this, and now this ruling is just another kick in the balls for them.
50
u/TGAILA 2d ago
During oral arguments, several of the justices appeared concerned about the prospect of criminalizing homelessness but they also worried about limiting a city’s ability to regulate public health or fire hazards in homeless encampments across the country.
It's a balancing act of not criminalizing homelessness and the city's responsibilities of keeping the public safe. California has spent approximately $24 billion on homelessness. The situation has only gotten worse. It goes to show that you can't throw money at something hoping to solve the problem. It's a complex issue. If you can solve poverty around the world, then you can solve homelessness. Housing is just the first step in a long road to recovery.
56
u/fatalexe 2d ago
Have they tried eminent domain, changing zoning and building housing to an affordable price point?
Homelessness services are pointless without a fair deal on how much work it takes to be housed.→ More replies (3)20
u/sluuuurp 2d ago
They’re basically doing the opposite, eminent domain to force people not to build homes. If they got out of the way and allowed housing to be built, it would at least help the problem a little.
→ More replies (12)22
u/Shadonic1 2d ago
all depends on how the money is spent. if were spending that much we could of built huge complexes with livable space for the homeless and commodities like laundry and what not and even could of had some of them obtain a job there with maintaining it or something. Theres multiple other systems so fucked up though that getting the zoning and also NIMBY battles is an issue.
→ More replies (1)6
u/CaptainJackVernaise 2d ago
Unfortunately, we've created this problem by housing deficits over the last 30 years, while having policy that kicked the homelessness can down the road perpetually. Now we get to pay for the short-term solution of sheltering and social services for a much larger population while we're also paying for the long-term solution of building housing for everybody.
10
u/Krokodrillo 2d ago
But if you have a home and take a nap outside it‘s okay or what?
→ More replies (3)
22
u/PlayTheHits 2d ago
But treasonous capital rioters are apparently cool? Our highest court is a fucking joke.
4
u/assaultedbymods 2d ago
As someone who lives in a large city with one of our nation's highest homeless numbers, I can tell you there is over half of the beds that go unfilled at the outreach and mission houses every night. That isn't because there aren't people that need them, its because those same people don't want to abide by the rules of the establishments and would rather get high on the street where they are unbothered by police. Our break-ins and theft is reaching an all time high. I'm happy to see this ruling, because it might clear out those who don't want to improve their situations, and encourage others. This isn't a death sentence for people willing to get their lives together.
5
5
u/Least_Gain5147 2d ago
Not "outside", but not "in public", meaning if you want to help, then let them sleep in your backyard.
6
u/SpiderGhost01 2d ago
1) This is not cruel or unusual punishment. And 2) This ruling allows the cities to deal with their homeless population that has been legally ambiguous over the years.
The democratic governor states this in the article.
This issue is so much more complex than what so many people in here think. And so many people just want to get upvotes and do reaction politics instead of actually reading the article or having an intelligent conversationa about the problem.
6
u/Dabramson546 2d ago
I live in Portland, OR. A beautiful city, but it has a homeless problem. This ruling is a good thing. There was little to no legal recourse to protect people from the destruction that can come from unsanctioned camping: crime, harassment, needles, garbage, fires, and human waste. I’ve breathed toxic air from campers burning random garbage outside my office. Campers smoke meth outside my kids day care. I no longer have any empathy. Some people can’t take care of themselves and their camps hurt others around them. We need legal teeth to remove them sometimes.
65
u/sarahinpdx 2d ago
Oregonian here. At face value, this looks like homelessness is being “criminalized” when that isn’t quite accurate. The alternative for enforcement for the last several years was literally nothing. Tent on the side walk and in a wheelchair needing to get by? Better move your wheelchair into oncoming traffic and hope for the best. Camp of fentanyl addicts set up near your kid’s school bus stop? Sorry. 9th Circuit said it’s cruel and unusual to do anything. There are also homeless folks who have the philosophy that they have the right to refuse all shelter and addiction services offered to them under the guise of “people should have the freedom to be where they want to be". And that’s exactly what has happened because the 9th Circuit hasn’t allowed any enforcement mechanism to incentivize homeless folks to utilize those services. Put it another way, it’s been all speak softly without the carry the big stick part.
I say this as a bleeding heart liberal who has seen this in her city for the last 8 years of living here now: societies have rules, boundaries, and expectations of behavior from individuals in order to function. Cities in particular. That's the social contract in action, and opting out is unworkable and unsustainable. This is finally a step in the right direction that will hopefully allow cities to finally force these folks to get them the help they need.
14
u/a_cute_epic_axis 2d ago
Here in Boulder, we have many shelters, and many more in Denver. Between the two, it's basically impossible to starve as well, if you're homeless.
Instead of using the resources which could require things like, not doing drugs in them, or not fighting in them, we instead have people shitting in the creek, shitting on the trails, shitting at the bandshell, etc. Addicts and people with mental health issues threatening those that come buy, or harassing them, physically or sexually assaulting them, starting fires, etc.
I'm ok with not letting that practice continue unabated.
people should have the freedom to be where they want to be
yah, the only people that ever say this are the people who have nice places that the homeless have not yet decended on. The moment they show up in their yard or the sidewalk out front, their tune changes.
→ More replies (4)6
u/wizardskeleton 2d ago
Your last statement hit the nail on the head. They believe a utopian society is achievable & lack any sort of experience with the reality of the situation.
→ More replies (28)17
u/pringlesaremyfav 2d ago
Thia ruling doesnt give the state the ability to force people to get help. It gives states the freedom to IGNORE any requirement to provide an alternative to homelessness, so that they dont even need to OFFER help. They can just round up the homeless, give them unaffordable fines, and toss them in prison without there even being a single shelter or alternative to them being homeless.
That's literally all this ruling does.
→ More replies (2)
19
u/ramdomvariableX 2d ago
yay, the poverty cycle continues /s.
people are poor because they cant get a well paying job --> lose house because .. poor -> get ticketed for being homeless ->cant pay ticket bcoz .. poor -> get charged for not paying tickets, add record --> cant get most jobs bcoz of record...
2.5k
u/EvidenceBasedSwamp 2d ago
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread. Anatole France